[Jewelry making - Article 00059] - Re: [Orchid] Firescoff - New Firescale

[R . E . Rourke]

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    I stated that there are alternatives that are as safe as soap, or
    borax and water, or boric acid and borax and alcohol..( citric acid,
    etc.) And if you don't want to use pickle -fine,use sandpaper or
    micro abrasives-effective and..simple ! -still no airbrushing
    required... 

    Cupronil IS superior in my experience. Tried, and tested since the
    70's, and relatively non-toxic- is cheaper, sprays a fine mist
    consistently ( for years) doesn't crystallize, or cost a fortune,
    ..and will not harm fetuses- or at least any of my friends who are
    goldsmiths that have had kids that have all come out just fine and
    without birth defects or genetic defects, etc- some of their parents
    even smoked pot-and perhaps dropped LSD... Woo ! dangerous, if you
    believe what you read (not that I'm promoting, or condoning the
    reemergence of a widespread cultural deviation from the 60's) !
    Again,Everything sold that contains elements, and compounds has to
    have a label, and California's labelling laws are over -the -top with
    scary warnings that don't apply to any real life use ( provided you
    have intelligence when using X) but are true to mice, rats, and test
    animals that are force fed, or otherwise have massive exposure to
    massive quantities of things that would give anything an adverse
    reaction given the methodologies used to gather data.. 

    Firescoff has many problems, in my experience. They haven't begun to
    work out the details or kinks at Nventa: it doesn't spray right -
    I'm on my third trial bottle ( 1 oz.) of the stuff! and the
    "nitrogen" (yeah, right!) will be released from the packaging once
    you depress the sprayer, or paint it on, in multiple coats to
    accomplish what they claim..additionally,.It is tres expensive and I
    had to inform them and question some early MSDS information regarding
    waterway safety they published- if you think for a second that this
    stuff isn't toxic, you are lacking in research, at least...I know
    what I'm talking about ;earlier i posted the response from Mr. Passe,
    who is a nice man, with a not fully tested product that costs too
    much,and probably won't be around all that long -If Nventa is only
    distributing 2ml samples, and gathering "insight" from Orchid
    discussions, I'm wondering where their budget is- i haven't heard of
    the other products they make - so draw your own conclusions from a
    marketing perspective, if no other! we're talking flux
    here!..something that should be cheap, quick, and when used properly
    has negligible health risks -unless your nasal passages and
    respiratory system is directly over your work and sucking the vapours
    in-repeatedly and deeply...I don't solder like that- do you??? 

    Wet wadded newspaper has been used since before Oppi Untracht
    published his works in the 60's,probably since newsprint was
    available to humans- since jewelry making pre- dates judeo-christian
    civilization ! I know of teachers ( in gold and silver) that extol
    its use to this day. It is a highly effective insulator,& to question
    that is ridiculous- better yet- try it..If its wet enough you,but not
    dripping(simply because its messy at that point) it is very
    effective at stone protection, doesn't charr, and comes off without
    chemicals- You should applaud that possibility based on what you
    wrote! !! You will not have a fire in any case, unless you are using
    a cutting torch with hydrogen gas for example on a 10mmx8mm stone on
    a paper covered work surface, perhaps with some greasy rags nearby
    while distracted, and possibly on speakerphone with a lizard loose on
    your bench..please !- that you have not heard of this is
    remarkable..its cheap, precedes any compounds that cost a lot more (
    although i like the vigor product and thermashield quite alot), and
    will even protect opals ( in my experience), and the teachers that
    profess its virtues to students on an ongoing basis at William
    Holland, J.C.Campbell, Arrowmont, Penland, and Wildacres, the SNAGnet
    aggregate, and i think its even in Tim McCreight's book-"The Complete
    Metalsmith"- and those are just a few of the places I have heard of (
    or read) various teachers telling their students of it- Funny, but
    most of the students are happy to know of a cheap, non toxic
    alternative when they are in a bind for a stone protectant.Further, I
    would not trust firescoff to begin to have the insular properties of
    wet, wadded newspaper.So - in your opinion, old timers still teaching
    this wadded newspaper paste technique are are all wrong and promoting
    a studio fire ?, I think not.. 

    I have seen people solder after oxidising or otherwise patinating
    silver and gold. Potassium sulfide ( liver of sulphur) and hydrogen
    cause explosions in rare cases-its a basic chemical fact and
    documented-.let's see I read that, where??? Oh yeah, Harold
    O'Connor- are you saying he's wrong too??. I have seen people execute
    techniques i would never attempt. Additionally I detest the way
    LiverOfSulfur looks on anything,and everything- its personal
    preference- and I don't use the stuff, or have it in my studio, home
    etc..and what about its toxicity--it FAR exceeds that of any flux-
    but you use it, hmmm... So you are selective about the toxicity you
    are willing to be exposed to- and that's where and why I even
    responded in the first..I am always amazed at the choices people make
    and perceptions about good and bad.......that "politically correct"
    randomness never has seemed very valid to me. 

    I think its worse to return product over miles of roadway, involving
    the customer returning a product's,office resources in preparing the
    package,the vehicle to bring it to a drop-off ( since you deem it
    hazardous are you going to pay the hazardous shipping
    attached???),the electricity involved in operating the meter and
    lighting to run the building at which its being posted, a mail
    carrier that picks it up, and the main mail truck that takes it to
    another zip code, then the delivery truck to back to the
    supplier...that seems a far worse for the larger picture of
    consumption and global health,and a frivolous use of fossil fuels
    that young guys are dying to defend, than the 80 cents worth of
    baking soda to neutralize the products - or better yet, donate them
    to CERF for people that loose everything to acts of nature, or a
    school, or senior center, or lapidary club, (since you said money is
    no object to you..).- than putting anything extraneous in our already
    over strained and beyond its carrying capacity eco-system... 

    I get really edgy when people make statements thinking that they are
    unique in their suffering of the environmental hazards that are
    played upon them., and at the center of a perceived universe in
    which their actions are of no reaction to the rest of the
    universe..or even their neighborhoods...I find it personally,
    extremely distasteful when anyone makes seemingly politically correct
    statements about "health over money "and still uses toxic chemicals
    and other far worse substances accompanied by thought patterns that
    tax the planet- or a more closed area, and have no consciousness of
    the larger scope of their actions and practises...So from the "houses
    of the holy"...i give you my opinions and wonderment at continued
    avoidance of the truths that i addressed, and I know, that you,
    didn't get it at all... 

This, will be my final post regarding Firescoff...
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